The view of the Lamb on mount Sion gave me joy unspeakable and full of glory. https://signaturebookslibrary.org/?p=24440. Good clarification, Doubting Thomas (if that is your real name), :) I have no reason to believe that Jerald Tanner attempted official contact, so Im not sure who Darrick is referring to or what the method of communication entailed. I remember being troubled by the lack of divine discernment that the brethren have/had. I was nervous that you belonged to the catalyst crowd and relieved to hear your developed belief, or non belief. Brent Lee Metcalfe is an independent researcher and writer of the Latter Day Saint Movement. Regardless of what one takes to be the truth of things, the evidence is not in favor of liberal religiosity as a recipe for church growth- those churches and communities which move away from their traditional truth claims tend to atrophy relatively speedily. brent metcalfe excommunicated. by Brent Metcalfe November 24, 2014 14 Comments Jan Shipps is the perfect inaugural interview for the Mormon Studies podcast. In other words, if it is an intrinsic aspect of a tradition to make historical claims or assertions about the underlying nature of the world, the falsification of those claims essentially undermines the character of that tradition. In Part 2, Brent describes working for and with Steve Christensen and Mark Hofmann, the Salamander Letter episode, and the bombings that took the lives of Steve and Kathy Sheets. 0% MARRIED St. Martins Press. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Thanks for the interview both of you. Where we should push back is, if someone solely discredits someone without examples of where their information is wrong or flawed ie simply attacking the messenger instead of the message. OMAHA, Neb. What an amazing life Brent! "Everybody that ever dealt with Mark Hofmann was a victim of his, and of his deception, and I think it's just kind of a . Many of the writers did become illustrious personalities, exactly as you point out. I had no idea what your beliefs were and it piqued my interest in part 1 where you talked about scripture being inspirational yet often times not historical. His contributions, reflections, thoughts and insights represent some of the most important contributions in the history of not just Mormon Stories, but Mormonism in general. He told the story of writing at least a few letters to Hofmann in prison asking for an interview. I dont agree with all the conclusions of your research but the research is a gift to all of us. @BHMetcalf. Also, the rest of your experience is so totally mind-blowing-interesting. And am I the only one who likes the older music better? She spoke of her life and what has happened in the 30 years since one of Utah's most infamous crimes, Thursday October 8, 2015. According to Krakauer, the letter said something to the effect of, Mark wont talk to you, but I will, and you definitely want to talk to me. That response introduced Krakauer to the Laffertys and gave him the story he needed to animate what he considered his analysis of radical faith. 515-294-6532. Best wishes, Brent! He also talks about his early forays into Mormon studies. Reminds me of the Mormon interpretation of Amos 3:7 (Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets). Do you attend church anyplace else? [8], Metcalfe is a native of New Zealand. Years ago, I attended a book reading and signing by Jon Krakauer in Marin County when he was promoting Under the Banner of Heaven. Did John take the tapes home to show his wife? Its the same adhominem from his whole establishment that shows how much they think they own the intellectual world. It was stillbecause it all drove from the incredibility of the whole thing. As a personal friend and research assistant for both Steve Christensen and Mark Hofmann, Brent Metcalfe watched the whole episode unfold right before his eyes. Our interview continues tonight!!! How have things changed over the decades? I believe Brent said he has the copy in his records.**. During the first part of his interview, usually John will ask a question about gaining a testimony while in the Mormon church or have spiritual experiences and then pairing those experiences with the Mormon narrative. In fact, Brent was with Mark the night before he caused the first explosion. Wow John, what an interview. Again, Im not sure that you would disagree with any of this. Fantastic interviews. But this podcast is filled with way more than you will get in the book or documentary. Hearing Brent break down the Hoffman timeline and story was amazing. There is a newish movement who rejects that the book of mormon ever occurred in South America. That said, I have to wonder what planet hes living on when he says that Catholicism has been reinvigorated in the post Vatican II era. Liked by Brent Metcalfe Experience Practice Lead - Mergers and Acquisitions/Investment Group and Consultant Backswath Management Sep 2022 - Present6 months Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Seeking New. In Part 6, we talk to Brent about his interactions and run-ins with prominent Mormon apologists like Daniel Peterson, Lou Midgley and others. What do you attribute this decline to? 497: Brent Metcalfe Part 3 -- After the Hofmann bombings and his excommunication (Podcast Episode 2014) on IMDb: Movies, TV, Celebs, and more. In the highly anticipated follow up to our first interview, Brent Metcalfe continues his story. Id like to hear Mr. Metcalfe address the character, integrity and morals of LDS apostles and prophets with regard to the books of A and M. Regarding the recent essay published by the LDS church regarding the Book of Abraham; what does he think they got right and what does he think is wrong? Thats what I expected from church leaders.I meanSalamander spirit !! Why didnt the Lord reveal to the prophet that the documents were forged? All this transpired in the 1980s, just around the time Mark Hofmann made his name in the community as a renowned book and document dealer. LDS was newly brought to her by a missionary before me. In the past, we often got snippets of information in The Church News, Looking forward to the interview! Surely, anyone who was even moderately sure of themselves in this case would have responded such as this : We have no idea where this letter came from, theres absolutely no truth in it and we disregard it completely.we maintain Josephs account to be true The 7th East Press was a gem. As a Mormon History and Rare Document Researcher, Brent Metcalfe has unparalleled knowledge of the religion and its connections in Utah. Thank You for contributing your experiences with us all I am curious this morning about the possibility of any reports during the time JS says he had his First Vision, that were published in local newspapers, town Crier printings? You can have a PhD and still not have great knowledge. My life has been enriched by theinquiries those books catalyzed. Published by on October 31, 2021. This is a rumor I heard. :( Will re-record hopefully soon! But such intellectual issues didnt play a role in my failure of faith. During my 7779 mission I served in two London areas, living first in Kilburn Park and later in Wimbledon. If I applied Vatican II to the full breadth of Catholicism, I clearly misspoke (Im not even sure why I would make such a sweeping claim, so I am a tad mystified). hillside christian church staff/ brent metcalfe excommunicated Create a Word Cloud at Tagxedo.Com. Historian Brent Metcalfe says he was fired by the church out of fear he'd publish something they didn't like. Are you generally satisfied with the way the Mark Hofmann affair has been portrayed in the media and in the various books? John Are you done interviewing faithful members or promoting faithful stories? She was excommunicated for it and it was ironic that her uncle, David O'McKay, was a member of the twelve apostles at the time (and later became Prophet.) They have proven time and time again that that is all they care about. Thanks for the clarification, Brent. It is those moments of intimacy that really help me connect to the humanity of the interviewee. Unresolved: Release in which this issue/RFE will be addressed. Why didnt the church just pay for their own documents? This has to be one of my top 10 favorite Mormonstories podcasts. Thank you Brent and John. I have heard that Mac Christianson financed the mission of one of Hofmanns sons. The 7th East Press is one of the great university newspapers; truly the stars aligned when this group got together. Long question, sorry ! After returning from Iraq after the 2nd deployment as a citizen soldier, I had the same epiphany as Brent; I learned that we are really on our own, there is no God. I was going to ask the same thing. As for the photocopy of Wilford Poulsons parallel, yes, I still have it in one of hundreds of boxes in a storage unit while my house is being remodeled. Ron Priddis was my friend, and had recruited me to be a writer. Im with you on the music Charles!! And you are an example. Thank you as well for your research, especially your work on New Approaches to the Book of Mormon. It is not possible for me to tell how long I remained in that situation, as everything earthly was gone from me for some time. He was enthusiastic about scholars allegedly validating his translations through secular methods (e.g., Charles Anthon on the BoMor characters and Michael Chandlers anonymous scholars on the BoAbr papyri). Awesome. Thanks for this podcast! Its a pity Joseph Smith couldnt sit them all down for a good coming-to-Jesus admonishing. Thanks again Brent for sharing a sketch of your life with us. Very informative. See the next John Whitmer Historical Association Journal for one of my essays. Until Vatican II, many scholars felt hamstrung by the churchs dogma on the Bible and related theological issues. I was pronouncing words instead of just reading them. That piqued my interest in the whole sordid affair. Ive struggled to understand the human mind in this regard. About a year or so ago when I finally left the church I looked him up to get advice and catch up on old times. Brent was ultimately excommunicated for editing/authoring this book. Do you still believe in God, and what type of God? When Brent Metcalfe compiled a book of essays last year suggesting that Mormonism's founding scripture wasn't the ancient history it purports to be, he expected some criticism. He also discusses the events leading up to, and including, his excommunication. I very much appreciated the beautiful memories and great stories Brent shared about what a remarkable and kind person Steve was. None of this means that believing scholars and secular scholars have to treat each other poorly or that we cannot respect (even in the midst of serious disagreement) each others work. All rights reserved. As Jeremy Runnells (a la Kirby Ferguson) has said, everythings a remix. [9] According to Metcalfe, he had written a letter to LDS Church leader Gordon B. Hinckley, disputing the grounds for his termination. If you ever get the chance to talk with Steve Christensens wife and/or Brent Metcalfe again, I would like to hear you explore this dichotomy with them as they are polar opposites. Thanks to the both of you! Lynn Jacobs was looked at carefully, I believe Brent Metcalf was looked at somewhat. Brent is a fascinating interview for Mormon Stories for many reasons, including: Please post your questions for Brent here. I especially connected with his comments on ADD. How did you encourage this masterpiece which, in my opinion, decimates the churchs past claims on the BofA? I happen to believe so. Be the first to contribute! I understand the church spent large sums of money on BYU professors and private research to bolster the Book of Mormon claims through archeological discoveries.unfortunately they have not found what they had hoped for. [4] He grew up a member of the LDS Church in a devout family, and served a mission for the LDS Church. If God will ultimately judge us all, why are mere mortals judging mortals, with the illusion of acting for God? Your account of why you didnt pursue a doctorate was extremely touching to me as I absolutely admire those that can do the tedium of historical research. Is there going to be a part 3? If you were to write a book, what aspects of the Hofmann story would you focus on? This negative sentiment is perhaps made up for by Hofmann's victims. Let me clarify. I am still cringing from the realizations about the lack of discernment and the deliberate efforts on the part of the GAs. In Part 5, we explore the history surrounding Joseph Smith and the Book of Abraham(one of the primary scriptural texts for the LDS Church). One question though, has Hoffman done any interviews since being in prison? My examples are numerous and heart breaking. Part two was chilling as details we have never heard about Mark Hoffman, Steve Christiansen come out. Once the Catholic scholar feels freed from the ostensible constraints of Catholic theology, it is questionable to what degree his scholarship is distinctively Catholic in the first place. This is what led me here! It was fascinating and enlightening to see the underbelly of ongoings between church leaders and members. I totally empathize with Brent, and all those who were condemned for their questions and knowledge seeking behavior. Oh. I devoutly attended BYU in the mid 70s. Joseph didnt go like a lamb to the slaughter in burning down personal property he broke the law in a major way. Ive known many of Brents views (his liking Raymond Brown, etc.) As coincidence would have it, a few months later I became her home teacher. "Mark deceived everyone," Co-director Jared Hess told Deseret News. So yes, Brent, please comment on this phenomenon. I just discovered this on my own I bought every single issue of the 7th East Press, and was so disappointed that I missed picking up the final April Fools issue which appeared around campus after the edict banning it from being sold on campus. As a teenager and still TBM I read some books on the Hoffman Salamander Letter and events surrounding it. We were both greenies at the same time. I have one teensy-tiny criticism about Johns sensitivity when someone questioned why Brent did not pursue an advanced degree. How was Christensen reimbursed or rewarded by the Church for his document ventures? Brent Metcalfe is definitely one of my favorite interviewees ever on Mormon Stories Podcast. And I went through a very long phase of just wishing that I had never been born.. I felt like somehow I was responsible for what had happened. Cookie Notice Now, alas, Im left to figure out why I dont personally do more to address the real-life hell that is meanwhile breaking loose in the world, now that I understand also that no gods exist to help us. Boy, what a chilling conclusion. Its great to find all this background information. Shortly after returning home and leaving the church he was very active in Sunstone and various things of that nature, but has since moved on with his life and seems very happy with a small family of his own running a small restaurant he and his older brother own together. According to Metcalfe, he was questioned by LDS Church authorities about his writing for the 7EP and Sunstone was "forced to resign" from his job in April 1983. I am waiting patiently for part 3. I wouldnt presume that Brendt is unaware of this and that his worldview does not follow from this hes well read. And I went through a very long phase of just wishing that I had never been born. He has also served in the United States Air Force (Air National Guard) since 2004. Get all the information related to Cardinal Health Nps Online - Make website login easier than ever The membership on the website. at firesides, etc about some new discovery somewhere that was about to put to rest the concerns about the BOMs historicity. When?? Brent is generally a giant in Mormon Studies, and is a great guy. Elbert was the managing editor, and Ron the financial guy, so I had the impression that Elbert created the whole thing. That was fascinating, thank you. Brent Metcalfe is definitely one of my favorite interviewees ever on Mormon Stories Podcast. Riveting stuff. This book was way above my reading level at the time and I wonder if that may be the biggest hurdle in reaching standard Mormons about the book and its challenges. All things praised God with me. I also appreciate your parting words. But Ashment, a fellow member of the church, said he was disgusted with those who publicly protested the church action at a rally for Murphy on Salt Lake City's Main Street plaza Sunday night. I found this podcast to be very fascinating. Do you believe that your martial arts and mental training has contributed to your belief system and the independence from the crowd? Lex, the recommendation by Andrew is a good resource. I could read fine in private but the social damage was done and anxiety overwhelmed me every time. God-belief has also been attributed partly to our brains evolved hyper-tendency to perceiveagency where none exists. John and I are just trying to align our schedules, so expect parts 3 & 4 soon. That makes more sense. I discovered New Approaches to the Book of Mormon back in 2002-03. I was in a mission conference in Bolivia when Steves younger brother was called out and told of the murder. Thanks, John and Brent! It would have helped me a lot to know I was not alone. brent metcalfe excommunicated. Thanks Brent for your sincerity, honesty and pleasant demeanor in which you talk about these things. I had a similar reaction to the section about ADD. And how many. Do as I say and not as I do. This was something I surmised most of my adult life. And it leaves this distrust in LDS leaders hanging with the viewer. Reply. These other people that had experiences dont seem to have a similar backlash evident. I think we ought to be okay with these questions, and not automatically defensive. 2023 Cinemaholic Inc. All rights reserved. Heres a link to the Deseret News write up on the presentation: https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865608559/BYU-professor-speaks-on-unnoticed-assumptions-about-the-Book-of-Abraham.html. And much was going on. Near the end of a presentation you gave for the ExMormon Foundation, you said something to the effect of: People ask me how Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Mormon, how he pulled it off, how it all came about. Listening now- so far, I like the new intro lots! Growing up in the Eleventh Ward, you seemed very different than the Terry, Larry and Scott group. New Approaches to the Book of Mormon: Explorations in Critical Methodology, https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865608559/BYU-professor-speaks-on-unnoticed-assumptions-about-the-Book-of-Abraham.html. Also, I appreciate you bringing up ADD. This was interesting all around. Thanks again Brent, no wonder you have had the experience you have shared with your faith about God. :). going back ten+ years when we first interacted online (message boards), but this interview gave me many more insights. But before Brent could truly move on, he had to deal with the emotional turmoil of knowing that he was associated with Mark Hofmann. Hinckley never responded, but was shortly thereafter offered the job by Christensen, which Metcalfe felt was orchestrated by Hinckley. How would it be different from other books that deal with the same subject? The lack of discernment all the way back throughout all the church history The lack of congruence among the leadership with such a claim as who they say is at the head! I served a mission with the missionary mentioned by Brent. Did you ever suspect there was something not quite right with Mark Hoffman? A special thanks to Brent for giving up so much of his time to do these episodes, especially some of them as he was feeling very much under the weather. brent metcalfe excommunicatedperpetual futures binance. He was basically threatening his entire existence. (paraphrased and likely not the actual quote from Murder Among the Mormons, Netflix documentary). In Episode 497, Brent Metcalfe shares an interesting fact that when Steve Christensen was called to be a Bishop that he told his Stake President that he would never excommunicate a member of his ward and if that was a problem that he wouldnt accept the calling. "The Mormon murders: A true story of greed, forgery, deceit, and death." Brent, thank you so much for doing this interview! Ive heard there might. Brent provided a detailed account of the Mark Hoffman story with a perspective that we seldom hear. I hope to move on some day as well. It seems there is some serious self deception that is required to work around these problems that are creating riffs in families, as well as individual conflicts of spiritual dissonance for good members and leaders of the church. Why are they so adamant about excommunicating someone who has a different opinion than they do? My question is: please discuss this shift or emphasis away from evidences and honest research (study it out in your mind), to just feelings, in regards to determining truth. Allegedly, he expressed too much "support" for Denver Snuffer, although by his own account, he would refuse to follow Snuffer if Snuffer had said that the LDS Church had gone totally astray.The individual, who identifies himself as Brent D. Larsen of the Eagle Mountain Utah Stake, discusses the . Like I said they were casting that net as wide as they could get it. I was curious about the book that Brent photocopied from the archives. Does your wife and/or children? I may have a chance to look for it next week, but Im not promising anything. Life seemed euphoric until I was excommunicated from the church because I questioned and I researched. Wrestling for coach Roy Hall at Davison High School in Michigan, Metcalf finished as arguably the #1 overall recruit with a career record of 228-0 with . Metcalfe subsequently resigned from the Seventh East Press and told Sunstone that he would no longer write for them. It all depends on the depth of study one does. I know about the September 6 and there are others. They buried the Mclellin diaries also.similar thingdidnt like the content. Hibbard later had a dream in which he again. Trent Nelson | The Salt Lake Tribune Dorie Olds is the ex-wife of Mormon bomber Mark Hofmann, who killed two people on Oct. 15, 1985. Im not sure who made this comment, (I think that it was on another thread),But it went something like thisBased upon the bretherns actions regarding the Salamander letter, The LDS leadership thought that Mark Hofmann was telling the truth and that Joseph Smith was the fraud. Do you think he will ever come completely clean? However, they still mention other things in their presentations (if you can stand to listen to them; I dont particularly like Jake Hiltons rhetoric, but Wayne May is pretty interesting to listen to)that are pretty fascinating and almost convincing. Coming from similar backgrounds, Mark and Brent subsequently began working together on finding and authenticating documents, which eventually turned their relationship into a friendship. Simply put, I think JSs BoAbr project is an example of JSs *sincerity*, not his fraudulence. Let me be equally clear that I dont believe that the BoAbr is an authentic translation of the papyri he possessed. Would that fit the time frame the book is given in? I heard this in contrast to the snippet of Steve Christensens wife on a news show asking about what Steve Christensen was threatening Mark Hofmann with if he didnt produce the McClellin collection where she stated something along the lines of He was going to go to the police and have him arrested.